What if Jesus meant what he said?
What if I actually let apocalyptic language be just that – apocalyptic language - and not literal descriptions?
What if some of the original discpliples actually saw the Son of Man coming in his kingdom, as promised? (Matt 16:28)
What if some in Jesus’ generation actually saw his return as promised? (Matt 24:34)
What if Jesus actually knew what he was saying when he said, “Look! I am coming soon!”? (Rev 22:12,20)
What if the world, as the Jews knew it, did come to an end in the first century?
What if I have full and total access to the kingdom now?
What if Christ has brought victory over death?
What would that victory look like?
What if all my preconceptions of what the Kingdom would be like have kept me from seeing its presence in our world today, just as the early apostles had misconceptions about the Kingdom?
What would the Kingdom look like?
What if Paul was justified in “anxiously awaiting” the Lord, expecting him during his lifetime?
What if the New Testament was in fact not a new law, but the beginning of a story, which we are a part of today?
What if I have totally missed the point of much of the Bible?
What am I supposed to do now?
5 comments:
Tony,
I love your question asking, I love some of these questions, they are very important especially wiht all the insanity involving eschataology these days. My only response or question maybe to ask is in response to the victory over death part. Paul said that Jesus' resurrection is the firstfruits, meaning there is more to come, and he talked about it elsewhere as well. Can death really be overcome unless those who have died actually overcome death, the way Jesus did and has? it seems to me that this is the big implication of a future aspect of the Kingdom, not that it isn't here now which I believe it is, but just that there are future aspects yet to be revealed, namely the resurrection from the dead, the doing away of evil for good and the literal reign of God on the earth. Obviously those things haven't happened and if you say all things have happened, then what is the hope for the future? Anyway, just listened to an NT Wright lecture where he talked about some of this, so I thought I might provoke a little. Hope all is well.
Hey Brent,
Thanks for the thoughts. That is definitely one of the main challenges that realized eschatology faces. In fact, Jared and I were just recently talking about this very conundrum. I am not fixed on any one "system"... in fact, most of the "systems" that I have explored are designed to answer only one or two questions... and if you ask a different question from that "system" it fails to have a good answer. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm still wrestling with what you said, combined with what Paul says about the Resurrection, combined with the "time" statements in the Gospels and epistles. I certainly don't have an aswer yet.
One thing that comes to mind as I consider your thoughts is: To explore every possible understanding, is it possible to rethink things like the resurrection and God's reign? For years, I was taught, indoctrinated, with the idea that the time statements were just there to create fear in contemporary readers. But, what if they were not just literary devices to compel future generations, but actually statements of faith? What would that mean? Hence, a more "realized eschatology." So, what if we have misunderstood concepts such as "victory over death?" You mention Jesus overcoming death, and that is what we will do. So, what if that means that we, like Jesus, have to die (in these bodies) and are resurrected in a new, glorified body, like Jesus was? In that understanding, death no longer has its sting, it is never victorious, yet, in at least some way, would still exist.
As you can see, there are a ton of questions out there... The Jews failed to accept the Kingdom and God's loving prophet, Jesus, because the Kingdom and the Messiah didn't look like their preconceived ideas. Are we doing the same by saying that because we have these preconceived ideas of what victory over death, the Resurrection, and the Kingdom look like, and we can't physically see that, so it must not have happened?
I appreciate your thoughts Brent. It is a vital part of engaging the question. Jared mentioned N.T. Wright's position as well. I need to read Andrew Perriman's "The Coming of the Son of Man," again; he is both a narrative theologian, as well as "emergent", as well as a realized eschatologist.
Look forward to more engagement and wrestling... it helps me and it shapes me because I'm far from landing on any one "system."
Tony,
Yeah, I'm with you, there's so much mystery involved and we need to be honest about that, we don't know exactly what will happen no matter how convinced we might be. The part about death, isn't the picture Paul and John and others are trying to paint is that in some way death is the last enemy to be done away with, death has lost its sting because of Jesus, but is still hanging around until it's finally vanquished. I think a tough question, surely God has a plan for the future and surely what happens after physical death plays into that, I guess I go back to this.
What are God's plans for the future? Is it just to have things continue forever as they are now, with evil rampant, babies dying every day, war, along with all the good things, etc? Or is there something more hopeful for the whole creation?
Because it seems to me that the Biblical picture is a fully renewed creation, the future the creation is longing for now. When Paul said the creation is longing for liberation, what was he talking about? And isn't Revelation a picture of that liberation, although as symbolic as it may be in so many aspects.
Look forward to talking further.
Good questions Brent. I don't know. We all bring our expectations to the Word, and that is inevitable. I like to think that there is some final consummation to everything; a place without evil.
On a related note, I have thought a lot about this place where "evil" does not exist. Is it possible to have humanity without having evil? Is evil generated from humanity choosing to do evil things? If, in a glorified state, humanity is unable to choose evil, are we left without free will? And if so, will we still be 'human'?
Like you said, there is a lot of mystery. Praise be to God that my relationship to him (and others) does not rely on perfect knowledge. It is fun for me to explore these issues.
Discussing things like this makes me realize how compartmentalized our society and logic have become; and that any time we have more "definite" ideas, they are based on picking and choosing the concepts that resonate most deeply with us. "Truth" is sometimes more of a value determination, more than something objective that anyone can see. For example, there are obbvious time statements. There are obvious pictures of the future. They (by our current, dichotomous understanding) seem mutually exclusive. So, we start to weigh that which we value more heavily. Someone will value a final "utopian" goal, and therefore, have to explain away the time statements. Someone else will value the "simplicity and forthrightness" of the time statements, and have to explain away the pictures of the future.
It is only important to make such distinctions only to the extent that it affects our daily lives, our interactions, even our local, national, and international politics.
Thanks for keeping me honest, and challenging me. I love it!
PS: don't think that I have given up on a future 'consummation' or anything; I'm truly not sure, so this is helpful.
Good points, especially on free will, that raises very difficult questions. I agree it's good to stretch each other on this issue.
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